This week, Leslie talks to Gabe Rosales. Gabe was a rock start. Then an addict. Then in jail. Now he's a rock star who helps addicts and incarcerated people. Gabe and Leslie talk about Gabe's story, and also debate how best to heal victims and perpetrators.

Hosted by Leslie Dobson. Produced and edited by Liam Billingham. Mixed by Aaron Dalton.

Executive producers are Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.

The views expressed in this podcast episode are solely those of the guest speaker and do not reflect the views of the host or the production company.